Interview with Larry A. Viterna January 15, 2003 WVIZ Web Exclusive Interview By: Julie Henry (December 17, 2002) Julie Henry talks with Larry A. Viterna, Chief, Commercial Technology Office at the NASA Glenn Research Center. She finds out what role NASA Glenn plays in the NASA system, what kind of programs they are involved in terms of education and technology transfer, as well as what steps NASA Glenn is taking to help the economy. TELL US ABOUT NASA GLENN AND ITS PLACE WITHIN THE NASA SYSTEM NASA Glenn is one of 10 NASA centers. And most people are familiar with the Kennedy Space Center where the shuttle is launched and the Johnson Space Center. Those are operations centers. There are 7 operations centers and there are three research centers -- and NASA Glenn is one of those three. The other two are the Ames Research Center in California and the Langley Research Center in Virginia. WHAT TYPE OF RESEARCH IS CONDUCTED AT NASA GLENN? The dominant research that's done here at the center is in supporting aero propulsion, commercial aircraft that we all fly on everyday, particularly the jet aircraft, the jet engines on those aircraft. We also do work in satellite communications and in experiments for the space shuttle, in investigating fundamental physics that are beneficial to our understanding of things like combustion, processes, and industry here on earth. HOW DID YOU GO FROM THIS RESEARCH INTO NASA BEING INVOLVED WITH REGIONAL ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT? Really there's a long history of the agency's involvement in commercializing its technology. It started with the actual inception of the agency by President Eisenhower in '58, in which he made a conscious decision that this wasn't going to be a military agency, it was going to be a commercial civilian agency, in fact. And you'll see that wording in the Congressional act that created the agency. And over a period of time, particularly in the Apollo era, you saw a tremendous amount of impact where there was a large investment in the space program in reducing the weight. Weight is a primary factor in the cost of space travel, to get it launched. And one of the technologies that evolved out of that was integrated circuits. People probably don't realize, but that's where integrated circuits were driven to get the weight down for space and aerospace use. And now integrated circuits are used in everything from computer chips and microwave ovens to our personal computers and so forth. SO NASA HAS HAD A HISTORY OF COMMERCIALIZING ITS TECHNOLOGY SINCE ITS INCEPTION? Yes. Fuel cells are another example, which were used in the 60s for those space flights, they're still used today for use on the space shuttle. And fuel cells today, of course, are very relevant technology to reducing emissions and improving the fuel economy of our automobiles that we're driving, that we will be driving in the next decade. DOES NASA GLENN HAVE ANY RELATIONSHIPS WITH LOCAL INSTITUTIONS IN TERMS OF TECH TRANSFER? We have a number of relationships with specific technologies. Primarily it's in polymers, because that's where the University of Akron is very, very good. We are working on polymer advanced energy storage batteries, for example, that could be used to lighten things like portable computers or cell phones with more energy and longer talk time in the case of a cell phone. HOW IS NASA GLENN CONTRIBUTING TO THE REINVENTION OF NORTHEAST OHIO'S ECONOMY? There's really a tremendous amount of resources here in this region, as well as at NASA Glenn. And we have strong relationships with the state of Ohio, with organizations such as CAMP, NEOSA. NEOSA, in fact, we have a partnership with in allowing small business to come in and utilize the same training we use in for instance information technology and computers, we're now partnered with NEOSA which allows companies to take advantage of that in receiving training. From a federal government point of view, NASA offers a fantastic program called the Small Business Innovation Research Program, SBIR. NIH has a similar program, the National Institute of Health. And that really provides a lot of funding for small businesses to start up, to do some research and innovate, which is not only of interest to the government but for commercial use as well. But beyond that, NASA Glenn has taken some very specific activity and initiatives to advance the regional economic development here. We have what's called a regional tech transfer center operated by Batelle GLITEC (The Great Lakes Industrial Technology Center), and that allows people to approach NASA and to understand what technologies might be applicable to their particular use. We have the LIFT Business Incubator, which is meant to facilitate the start-up of new businesses that have the potential to use NASA technology. We have one here located on site at the NASA Glenn Research Center and there's one down in Strongsville. TELL US ABOUT LIFT LIFT is funded by the state of Ohio as well as NASA Glenn. And it's operated by Enterprise Development, which is a partnership with Case because Enterprise Development is part of Case Western Reserve University. LIFT has been very, very successful. We've had 17 companies in the program, incubated in that program, a number of successes that are spin-off programs from that center -- biomedical companies, companies that do aerospace type analysis work as well. 01:07:06;22 D And the advantage of that to NASA is that it really provides a source for us for technology development and innovation. These small companies, it turns out, develop much of the innovation in terms of invention disclosures. When we look at the results of invention disclosures, we actually see about four or five times more inventions come out of small businesses than large businesses. So that's why we put such a focus on it. And we end up then in the long run with a new source of innovation located adjacent to the center. So that's our objective. And again, a lot of good successes in this region. TELL US ABOUT THE NASA GLENN PARTNERSHIP WITH CLEVELAND'S EAST TECHNICAL HIGH SCHOOL East Tech is a very unique partnership we've enjoyed for nearly a decade, and that was a challenge to develop robotics in a competition, a national competition. And one of our engineers actually reached out to East Tech and developed that partnership and involved now in a major team effort that we have every year. But for us, again, one of our objectives at NASA is to really inspire youth, and certainly the space program has historically done that. And this puts it in a very concrete, if you will, and challenging type of environment in which those students, and it's usually a student team of 15 high school students, are then joined with several researchers here at the center. And the team develops the concept for a robot which has to do with a certain function, maybe pick up balls and put them in a basket. A very, very exciting and fun program and really has inspired a number of students from that school into science and engineering. WHAT ABOUT YOUR UNIVERSITY INTERNSHIP PROGRAM ? We also have a program that works with, an internship program, that works with the universities both in the region as well as across the nation. And it's one of the most active programs probably in the federal government. We have over probably 250 (200 college and 50 high school) students a year. And the uh projects they work on are real projects. And it gives them a very good sense of what it's like to work as a scientist and engineer, as well as benefitting our center. A lot of times they will come up with results that we implement for use in space or aeronautics work. And I think the real advantage to the regional economy of an internship program such as NASA Glenn's is that is helps foster an understanding by those students of what's available in the region. There's a lot of talk of brain drain and losing students. We certainly have outstanding educational institutions here and we have graduate students who are outstanding students, you'll see their research referenced, we see it all the time. And they're very good and capable people. 01:11:53;27 D But unfortunately the job base hasn't always matched the needs and the capabilities of those students. So a dynamic, vibrant internship program not just by NASA Glenn, but by the major industry companies in the region, is going to be very beneficial to retaining those very sharp students. TELL US WHY NASA'S ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS FOCUSES LARGELY ON HELPING SMALL BUSINESSES The federal government has a policy of using small businesses as much as possible, for example, in the services and products that it needs. So it's really just an extension of that. It's a way of growing that base as well. NASA Glenn, being a high-tech organization in a sense, we work in high technologies may be at a disconnect with the region in some areas of the economy. So this is an attempt to really build up the capabilities of the region to somewhat match what NASA's needs are, so that we don't have to necessarily go some great distance in order to get the products and services we need. NASA Glenn, being a high-tech organization in a sense, we work in high technologies may be at a disconnect with the region in some areas of the economy. So this is an attempt to really build up the capabilities of the region to somewhat match what NASA's needs are so that we don't have to necessarily go some great distance in order to get the products and services we need. There's an emphasis on matching some of the technology capabilities with NASA. But it does offer beyond technology it offers business planning and other services which are unique I think, again, within the federal system. WHAT DOES "THE COMMERCIALIZATION OF TECHNOLOGY" MEAN? I think all the things we've been speaking about here, all these programs, really have a commercialization component. And that's the ideas that technology developed at the taxpayers expense for space use has a potential to be used in commercial applications, things like fuel cells, for example, being used for automotive use, advanced materials that may provide better structural capability in crashes in automobiles. So those are, that would be one example of an industry that would benefit from NASA's technology commercialized in their industry. TELL US ABOUT THE ENTREPRENEURIAL TRAINING PROGRAM NASA GLENN RECENTLY STARTED FOR ITS EMPLOYEES This year (2002) we initiated a program to actually train our own employees on how they might start their own businesses. And you might think, why would a company do this. And it is very unusual, although it does match well with our incubator that we have on site. Certainly we've had employees prior to this start their own businesses, go into the incubator, and become very successful. This was an attempt, though, to really take a proactive approach and encourage entrepreneurialism. And there's really, again, benefits back to the agency for doing that. If we can create new companies that can supply innovative technology to NASA, then we've got a source, a new source of technology in a sense. SOME PEOPLE MIGHT ASK WHY WOULD YOU TAKE THE CHANCE OF LOSING SOME OF YOUR BEST AND BRIGHTEST PEOPLE? Yes, the entrepreneurial program that we started this year was a very unique program for our center. We've never done that in terms of proactively encouraging our employees to explore opportunities to start their own business. You say, why would we do that? No other company that I can think of in the region has really done that. The universities have been better recently at encouraging employees and professors and so forth. But it's highly unusual for a business to do that. But it is actually beneficial. It provides a source of innovative technology for the center in the long term and you may think that we'd risk losing some of our best people. But in reality it creates an environment, I believe, in which people view the center as a place to expand their capabilities in an entrepreneurial, creative environment. And you saw that in places like MIT's Route 128 Corridor or Silicon Valley, where institutions in those regions have actually encouraged their employees to start their own businesses. And in the long term, over the last 20 years since MIT started encouraging that, there's really been no depletion of the stature of MIT. In fact, it's been seen as almost a Mecca of high tech and entrepreneurialism. So it really is a benefit in the long term both to the region as well as to the source institution in the beginning. And I'd encourage other companies and institutions to consider doing a similar thing. Resources: To learn more about the NASA Glenn Garrett Morgan Commercialization Initiative, visit www.nasagmci.org.